Peoples Democratic Party candidate, Jimi Agbaje has said that the debt profile of Lagos state is mushrooming out of control even as he applauded the efforts of the opposition government in increasing the Internally Generated Revenue of the state from N10 billion to N400 billion.
He discussed the economic significance of the debt to revenue profile of the State in a recent interview with Daily Independent.
Excerpts:
Looking at the annual Internal Generated Revenue (IGR) in Lagos State, can you really say that the state government has matched the money with the level of development across the state?
The answer is ‘no’, though I am not saying the state has not done anything at all. The IGR has moved from N10 bilion in 1999 to N400 bilion today. So, you have an increase in capital. But, then what has been the other side of it? The question is, one, our borrowing has also increased. As recent as 2007, I think our borrowing was about 51 per cent of the total revenue, but, today as at the end of 2014, our borrowing is now about 113 per cent of the total revenue. In other words, today, Lagos owes about N435 billion and our income is about N389 billion. So, our debt has increased tremendously. Here people talk about the rating and rankings, but everyone knows that rating or not, when you are borrowing at that rate, especially now that oil has crashed, and we have debts in dollars which we have to pay. Again, the IGR has been at great cost to those that are caught in the tax payment and that is why a lot of people are complaining about the burden of tax and the multiplicity of the tax. If there is anybody that is caught in that tax, you don’t even have a right of reply. So, if they say your income is N1million, you have to pay the tax of N1million. You cannot even say it is not so. When you say your income is N1million and the Lagos State government say your income is N1.5 million, you are going to pay the tax of N1.5million. There is no right of appeal because nobody is going to listen to you. So, it is a very oppressive kind of tax payment. While it is good on one hand, at what cost are we really doing this? When people talk about continuity in governance, Lagosians are saying that mustn’t continue and that is why we have come to address the situation.
Looking at the social condition of Lagosians, can you really the Fashola-led administration has fulfilled its promises of giving a brighter, rewarding future to Lagosians in this regard?
On the issue of social condition, how much has government really done for the people?. It is very important that we look at the social conditions as it affects Lagosians. For instance, the BRT buses. The BRT was meant to provide an alternative to the rickety molue buses. It was meant to ease transport, make it faster and comfortable, not just for the poor, but even for the middle class. Again, while the concept was good, can we say that the implementation has been okay? I am not sure there is a day that you will drive from Ikeja to Lagos and you won’t find one BRT breaking down on the road. So, you can’t say that the people have really benefited from that project in terms of social conditions. This is a party that talks about progressivism and I like to explain that there are different ways to explain progressivism. But, I take the concept that it came with the World War. Before the World War, you have a concept where people work with their
hands. Shoemakers will make one shoe in three days, tailors will sew one dress in three days. Then the war came and they needed to have guns made in hundred of thousands everyday, you needed to have shoes for the soldiers made in thousands. You needed to sew their uniforms in thousands and so industrialisation and machines came in. After the war, people were asking what will become the fate of these people since there is no need to produce shoes and clothes in large quantities anymore? Then there is a school of thought that says ‘they should go and look for something else to do. If they can’t find work, they should perish and these are the ones that are looked at as the conservatives. But you have those who said you cannot treat human beings like that. What do these people need? How do we cushion the effect? And so they said if a man is able to take care of the basics, he is able to take care of himself. If you take care of the education of his children, then we can say let him go since the basic needs have been taken care of. Do we say then that a government or ruling party that talks about no housing for the low cost is a progressive? For me, I am not saying that the Fashola government or the ruling party has not done well in the last 16 years, but we cannot say that in the last eight years, that what we have is a progressive government in power.
How have we fared in Lagos State in the area of qualitative education, and what are your plans for the sector if elected?
We have a situation where the state government most times is always looking to increase fees here and there. It is more like you have to pay and if you can’t pay you perish. Of course, with the pressure of election around the corner, this has been reversed. Talking about the Internally Revenue Generation, someone just told me the state government has reduced the land charges recently. Because election is around the corner, you begin to reverse these obnoxious fees. These are things we are talking about whether they are really progressives that they claim to be. Again, there are conservatives governments that are successful but they don’t call themselves progressives. So, if you want to say that there are some measures of success in the present government, but it cannot be said to be progressive. I want us to be very clear. There are conservative governments that have been successful, but this one cannot say that it is a progressive government. Also, when you look at the budget, you find out that Lagos State government spends 82 per cent of its education budget on recurrent expenditure, that is on salary and overheads. There is no how you can be spending 82 per cent on recurrent expenditure and you want our education to be right. That is very wrong.
What is your assessment of the environmental situation in Lagos, especially in the area of waste management?
On the issue of environment, refuse or waste disposal is better than it was before. I think we all admit that there has been some progress in that respect. Yes, Lagos metropolis is cleaner than it was before. But then, we look at the other side and that is potable water for Lagosians to drink. How many of us have waters running in our pipes at home? We still have a situation even by government admission, there is only 39 per cent achievement in the demand for water by Lagosians. So, people have not yet seen the benefits in terms of the social aspect of this government.
One of the major challenge residents face in Lagos is housing. Despite government building low cost housing, many can’t afford it and this has led to springing up of slums. If elected, how do you intend to address this?
Government today, by their own admission since 1999, have built about 29,000 housing units all in all in a state where we have a need to build over 20,000 units every year to meet the demands of people. We have a situation where they cannot say that they have helped in that regard. Rather, they are saying that there is no low cost housing since there are no low cost cements in the market. That is why I said that it is definitely not progressive in nature. It is more of a conservative government. So, when people are talking about continuity, they should be clear about what they are asking for. We can go on and on but more importantly, people said the ruling party has done well but let us look at the statistics because statistics don’t lie. And these are not statistics manufactured by Jimi Agbaje. If you look at World Bank survey for states in our country, they talk about ease of construction permit. If you want to build a house, factory or anything, of all the states in Nigeria, Lagos ranked number 36 out of 36 states. It is the worst state in Nigeria to get permission to build in this country because they make it so difficult for the residents to build. This is supposed to be the state that will support people to have houses. What that means is that there will be slums everywhere, because, if the trouble is too much to get permit to build house, a lot of people are building in an unplanned manner because they are not ready to go to government to get permit. It is too expensive and the stress is unbearable.
Again the World Bank tried to help us by giving us some money nine years ago for urban reversion of the slums in Badia, Iwaya, Makoko and the rest. I think we got a loan of about $200 billion. If we have been to all these places in recent times, can we really say it has worked? It means we took a loan, but, we didn’t get the formula to use it right or we didn’t do it right. It means we have not shown the capacity to transform the slums and we are having more slums because the government is not building enough houses. I am not saying that government has to build all the houses, but obviously, our housing in terms of meeting the needs of the people, we don’t have the right formula for that. It is like the story of the frog that you put in water and it is enjoying the water and you are warming the water very slowly. The frog is getting warm and feeling good but it doesn’t know that the water is boiling until it is cooked and it dies. We don’t want to fall into that trap in Lagos.
What can you say about the security situation in Lagos, especially in the last eight years?
There has been improvement. The issue of the Security Trust Fund is something one cannot question. It is a good move; but, we still have a situation where crime still needs to be tackled more. Crime in our inner cities can now be said to have increased tremendously, even in our metropolis. We still feel very uncomfortable when we are in traffic even at 6.pm in the evening. These are things that we need to begin to look at seriously. We want a 24-hour economy, so that people can feel safe to work at night. That is the way you create jobs
How will you say Lagos has fared in terms of qualitative leadership?
With all sense of responsibility, Lagos has suffered from governance. Lagos has been affected by vested interests. Everything that has been done in Lagos has to take into considerations vested interests of few people. It means that if you want to bring industry to Lagos, if those who have vested interests are not given adequately, then your business cannot come, even if it comes, it is seriously frustrated. If you want to build any high rise in any special area, vested interests are all there. It affects political life and those who are put into office. Instead of continuity, we want change. This is because change is going to bring about bold ideas and new opportunities. Change is going to bring about greater developments to Lagos. We will maximise resources at our disposal. I think that is even more important now when we look at the current economic situation of our oil sector.
The PDP seems to be focusing on the governorship election in Lags alone, while not giving attention to the House of Assembly election. If you win, do you think it will be easy for you to government with a House that is filled with opposition members?
On your finger tips, you cannot even mention 15 members of the House of Assembly. The way it works is that this race we are going to run, we are going to run it in a way that a lot of people are going to ride on that platform. People who are going to vote for Jimi Agbaje are going to vote for the candidates of the PDP at the House of Assembly. Don’t forget that the election will be held same day. Not many people who vote for House of Assembly, either for APC or PDP, knew the candidates. They simply voted for the party. We will overcome that after winning the election. What I am saying is that the way you govern is different. When Peter Obi governed Anambra, he didn’t have a single member of APGA in the Assembly; but, he threw his case to the public. I want to build schools, they said I shouldn’t build schools. The public will wonder ‘Why should the House of Assembly do that?’ I know that in the course of the campaign, people who are voting for Jimi Agbaje will vote for PDP lawmakers.
The APC has been the party in power for 16 years in Lagos. Do you think that the PDP has the machinery to dislodge that formidable structure at the polls?
The machinery of the APC, a party that has been in power for the past 16 years, so, it is a formidable machinery. But, the beauty of it is that when it is time for change, everything will work for you. There are people who have issues with the government of the day. These are market women, professional traders, youths, even civil servants. What matters now is that if Lagosians really want a change, how do we use our structures and what we have to bring about that change? That is the difference between a Jimi Agbaje on a DPA platform and the one a PDP platform. We are not asking anybody to rig the elections. All we are saying is ‘Let the people’s vote count’. Put in place mechanism where people can have their say on who governs them.
On the Balogun market fire incident, a lot of traders have accused the government of taking advantage of disasters in the market to pull down the markets and rebuild it into shopping complex, which they now give out at astronomic prices beyond the reach of the masses. What are your plans to correct these if elected intro office?
Like I said, most of those who have issues with government of the day are the market women. There are three issues for this. One, the levies they impose on them. Everyday, they are made to pay over N1,000 and this money does not usually get to the government. That is the benefit of the local government people because they are taking all their money at the state level. So, they have to use their authority to find other ways to make money. There is the issue of the threat that the vested interests in Lagos want to convert their markets to shopping complex. Jakande ruled Lagos State and built more markets. He didn’t take market away from the people. And that is the reality. We want to make the marketers feel at home, we want to provide basic amenities for them. Most of the markets now have no public toilets, the waste disposal still leaves much to be desired. We will correct all these anomalies if elected into office. I am giving the traders my word on this.